Topic Merman vs. Peters from the General Chit-Chat forum.
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| Author | Topic: Merman vs. Peters |
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 Christine-NYC
Registered User
Registered:
3/23/2002
From:
New York City
Fav. BP Song: With So Little to be Sure Of
Fav. BP Show: Gypsy
Fav. BP Character: Marie (insert last name) lol There's a few
Fav. BP CD: Bernadette Peters Loves Rogers and Hammerstein
| posted: 3/15/2004 at 12:17:30 PM ET
Considering I never saw Ethel Merman "Act" the part, I cannot judge her on that. But comparing the singing, I think Bernadette sings with much more feeling; therefore making me like the character of Rose much more. I imagine Ethel must have been very good as Mama Rose because back then she was the style they wanted. Rose was supposed to be depicted as a rough-edged stage mother, and Ethel gave them that. Now they want a more gentil/sexier Rose who gives more emotional feeling, and Bernadette does that. Both ladies were chosen for this role for completely different reasons.
As far as Mary Martin goes, she will always be my favorite "Old Time" Broadway actress/singer. I know she is an acquired taste (as is Ethel Merman and Bernadette Peters); but I think she was just amazing. I'm sorry I wasn't around to see her on Bradway...though I did grow up watching her version of Peter Pan on tape.  She is the reason I grew to love musical theatre as a young child.
<3CMH<3
|  Brandon29
Registered User
Registered:
6/13/2003
From:
Brooklyn, NY | posted: 3/15/2004 at 1:23:46 PM ET
I much prefer the Cathy Rigby staging of PETER PAN. Haha! She is great, as was Mary Martin, but Captain Hook (Paul Shoefler) totally thrills me! I think he is a fabulous performer! As for Ethel and Bernadette (where the subject belongs) let all agree that they are different and just leave it at that. Why should we argue? Some People like Rose the person, and Some People like Rose the monster! I personally don't like Middle Eastern Cuisine, but does that matter to anybody else in the world? Not really! Does that make sense or did I just make a fool out of myself? Haha!
LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO MABEL!!
|  Broadwaybaby17
Registered User
Registered:
3/18/2003
From:
Alabama | posted: 3/15/2004 at 1:44:12 PM ET
Ahhh! Ok, I hope I didn't offend anyone with the mouse comment(mice included). That was MY opinion...I do like Merman! For other reasons...the presence and such. I just like Bernadette's singing voice better. Okay, does that smooth things over and clarify? lol sorry! I too prefer cathy rigby's performance to Mary Martin's but I LOVE Mary to death! i think we all agree that these people came from different styles and approaches and for every time that they are in they were perfect. I love and respect them all.
Bump it with a trumpet!
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/15/2004 at 1:59:14 PM ET
LOL,Broadwaybaby17. I'm not offended-it was just a unique observation,and I wondered about it! I was just teasing you.
I saw the Mary Martin Peter Pan production as a child and I loved it very much. Still do.
I haven't seen the Cathy Rigby production (I'm guessing there's a video?). If there is,I'll have to look for it-just to see how Tiger Lily and the "Indians" are handled. Another example of a show going through different eras and attitudes.
Jenn,who really needs to get the Mary Martin/Richard Rodgers recording (he plays the piano!). And read her autobiography. And find Ethel Merman's second autobiography. And finally buy Sherry!
| Broadwaybaby17
Registered User
Registered:
3/18/2003
From:
Alabama | posted: 3/15/2004 at 11:14:54 PM ET
OOOO! Mary Martin's biography will make you cry!
Bump it with a trumpet!
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/16/2004 at 12:08:59 AM ET
BroadwayBaby17-that's what I've heard. I've been reading nothing but young adult and children's books and magazines recently in order to be caught up for job interviews,and I really need to read something on a more adult level.
Jenn
| Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
80.43.178.x | posted: 3/16/2004 at 3:07:11 PM ET
Merman was a steamroller of a performer, something that was accepted as a great asset in the golden age of theatre.
Bernadette doesn't steamroll over, but immerses herself in the character and can still belt out a tune.
|  SingOutAnnie
Registered User
Registered:
8/23/2003
From:
Bradenton/Sarasota, FLA | posted: 3/16/2004 at 4:00:29 PM ET
The words "finesse" and "nuance" come to mind with Bernadette.
They don't with Merman. And, yes, "steamroller" does.
Have to say, too, that the word "sex" doesn't come to mind for Ethel either. I can never imagine Merman singing "Small World" or "You'll Never Get From Me" to a man and have it mean anywhere near the same thing as when Bernadette sings them to John Dossett.
Merman only sang Merman-esque. She's was an acquired taste, I think. Still...
Both are great stars, in very different ways for very different reasons.
| Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
66.167.146.x | posted: 3/17/2004 at 6:56:31 PM ET
this is the same anonymous as before...but jm...my comment wasn't directed towards you at all. i actually agreed with you and felt that you showed equality (despite your well-earned bias). And Jean, I was not being literal when I said you can't put Merman down like that. I am not trying to start a fight, but I was just expressing my opinion as well. I didn't mean to offend any Americans. Sorry, if i offended anyone, but as someone said before Ethel Merman is an acquired taste, but a person can still (but don't have to) have respect for her even if her style is dated and completely un-modern. I didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/17/2004 at 10:20:17 PM ET
Oh,I don't know. She never had a problem finding romantic relationships. Keeping them was a different story. Some men like the bossy and earthy type,and that's how it could have been played on stage. And there was a strip planned for Rose in the original production as well (it was dropped,of course-either she had trouble with it or it just didn't fit is what I've learned from different accounts.). But I understand your point,SingOutAnnie.. And perhaps that comes through because Bernadette and John Dossett,by all accounts,aren't throwing props at each other backstage and have genuine chemistry. That may not have been the case in the original production.
Herbie's a tough role. He's not the dominant one in the relationship,and it's easy to for the audience to feel more disgust than empathy for him,depending on how the role is played. If you can understand him as someone who is just blinded by love-and lust-for Rose,just crazymad in love with her,then he can create empathy. It's a truly remarkable thing when a man is crazymadinlove with a woman (when it's reciprocated, because otherwise it's creepy. But then,it's not really love.)-and how wonderful it feels for the woman as well,'cause a woman knows-and if Rose feels that,and the audience knows that she feels that,then bam-what a deeper context you've got there.
If he comes across as just an ineffectual and weak man,then you don't really care about him or the relationship. And I've never felt empathy for Herbie-and I've seen Gypsy performed by different casts several times-until now. And that's just going by the recording. No one really goes into this caring about Herbie,because the show's all about the women in the show. What a challenge it is for a man cast as Herbie in this role,and how great John Dossett rose to that challenge....
Anybody know if Ethel and Jack Klugman got along? I really need to find a copy of her autobiography-it's been years since I've read it. I know she hated Sandra Church.
Oh,and BTW-this is completely and totally a vain gesture on my part,but I do believe I mentioned that I saw the Mary Martin production as a child. That would be a *recording* of the production,ladies and gents.
Jenn,who saw *Sandy Duncan* in the touring production of Peter Pan. My first show.
| SingOutAnnie
Registered User
Registered:
8/23/2003
From:
Bradenton/Sarasota, FLA | posted: 3/18/2004 at 8:45:04 AM ET
I loved Mary Martin's TV Peter Pan when I was child, and own a video of the NBC special, which I still enjoy at my advancing age of nearly 50. I love that deep laugh of hers, and have a whole new appreciation of Cyril Ritchard's funny performance. It is a show that can take me back to a warm, safe, joyful place, second from the right and straight on 'til morning -- and sometimes you just need that. I also saw Sandy Duncan's stage performance, on Miami Beach, and thought she was great.
I remember years ago Julie Harris (I think it was she) once saying it's the one role she'd love to play, and it's a favorite of other actresses as well. I've thought that Bernadette, performance-wise of singing and acting and stature, would be a terrific Peter Pan -- except for the hair and, well, in some ways (two, to be exact) it would be difficult for her to pull off a boy.
RE: Merman,
I think it goes to the great strength of "Gypsy," what Bernadette always talks about: the richness of the play, the score and the role of Mama Rose, that it's open to different interpretations. That's what some Merman lovers didn't get with Peters' portrayal. I've seen Russell in film and Lansbury on stage, and Peters. I could see the attraction of all of them; it's more difficult with Merman.
But, jmslsu01, have no doubt: I would kill to have seen Merman on stage (but more so, Martin. A sister-in-law once told me that she'd seen Mary on stage as Peter Pan in New York and I was as green as Peter's outfit.)
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/18/2004 at 3:19:25 PM ET
SingOutAnnie-
I really have nothing else to add-I agree with your post for the most part,but can't see or would want Bernadette in this role.
I would have loved to been in the audience when a young Ethel sang "I Got Rhythm" for the very first time in Girl Crazy.
Jenn
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