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| Author | Topic: Merman vs. Peters |
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 PA Fan
Registered User
Registered:
11/6/2003 | posted: 3/14/2004 at 3:56:48 PM ET
I am now listening to the Ethel Merman version of the OBC of Gypsy and to be very honest, I am having great difficulty getting through it. I never saw Merman on the stage, but am old enough to remember her on TV and seeing reruns of her old movies. If the measurement for Gypsy is who can sing (bellow) the loudest, she wins hands down, but with her voice there's absolutely no inflection, feeling or interpretation put into any of the songs.
The difference between the Merman and Peters versions of Gypsy is like night and day. Peters' take on the role and score is, to me, so much more real to what the role is.
Interesting to see that Sondheim "plays" Rose's father in "Some People."
|  bernielover48
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7/17/2003 | posted: 3/14/2004 at 4:02:42 PM ET
I agree 150%!!!!!!
"I had a dream, I dreamed it for you June. It wasn't for me Herbie! And if it wasn't for me, then where would you be, Miss. Gypsy Rose Lee?" ~**~Rose's Turn~**~
|  Rose
Registered User
Registered:
9/28/2003
From:
NY
Fav. BP Song: No One Is Alone and Some People
Fav. BP Show: Gypsy
Fav. BP Character: Rose/The Witch
Fav. BP CD: Gypsy
| posted: 3/14/2004 at 4:23:15 PM ET
You're absolutely right. Sondheim was actually in the play?
"Oh no, you won't. No, not a chance. No arguements, shut up and dance."
| PA Fan
Registered User
Registered:
11/6/2003 | posted: 3/14/2004 at 4:51:43 PM ET
Sondheim is on the OBC for Some People...he recites the "you're not getting 88 cents from me." Maybe he just did it for the OBC recording --- though I have no idea whether he actually played the role on stage.
| BroadwayBabyGal
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Registered:
5/8/2003 | posted: 3/14/2004 at 5:12:25 PM ET
I personally can't stand Ethel Merman, but that's just me.
~*Jessica*~
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 3/14/2004 at 5:13:38 PM ET
No, he wasn't in the production, but it is his voice on the original cast album saying "You ain't getting 88 cents from me, Rose". It's true that Merman is almost the exact inverse of Bernadette as a performer, yet I still love her work in its own way. Maybe you had to grow up on it, but the original Gypsy album always seemed to me like one of the ultimate Broadway touchstones. When I was growing up, everyone who loved musicals adored that album (or at least it seemed that way to me as a kid). It was like West Side Story or Damn Yankees or South Pacific. If you didn't love those, you might as well say you didn't like musicals period. I still listen to all of them a lot. Many of the times I listen to Bernadette's Gypsy, I'll listen to sone of Merman's also. To my ears they sort of "supplement" each other. Bernadette is obviously an infinitely better actor, and a very great singer in her own style, but sometimes there's just nothing that can give you that jolt of adrenelin and send you off soaring like Merman's belt. I think I'm in the minority on this board, but that might be because of my age. I've noticed it's getting fairly rare for younger people to like Merman; a lot of young people don't even seem to like Mary Martin, which is a little more surprising to me. Well, enough of my ramblings about the "good old days".
|  Brandon29
Registered User
Registered:
6/13/2003
From:
Brooklyn, NY | posted: 3/14/2004 at 5:45:01 PM ET
I am a huge fan of Bernadette's as well as Ethel's... and first of all I have to admit that I am in the class of people who don't consider Ethel to have been a belter as much as having a strong "mix" in her voice. (I feel that Sutton Foster is another of these "mixers" who is considered a belter). Bernadette, I think, has a great honest belt, but she definately uses great dynamics in her singing. I love that about her. I definatly think she is a great actor, who uses her body and her voice to their full potential. Ethel was a fine actress herself, but I agree that it is hard to listen to her renditions of song like "Small World" or Irving Berlin's "I Got Lost In His Arms."
LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO MABEL!!
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/14/2004 at 8:02:15 PM ET
Ethel Merman was a star in a completely different era. Different acting theories,different audiences,different ways of staging shows. Ethel Merman's view that a show was "frozen" was not a unique interpretation-of course,that theory is outdated (for the better,which I believe most people would think!). There are stories that she "walked through" shows at later dates,but that's been said of other people (Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl,for example).
Comparing someone from that era to a modern actress is like comparing apples and oranges. And interpretations of Gypsy have changed throughout the years. Also, Ethel Merman in her later years was a different woman than Ethel Merman at age 22 or 23 in Girl Crazy,and different from a Merman at the height of her stardom and a Broadway in its golden years. A succession of failed marriages,raising her children alone after their father committed suicide,losing her parents closely together, and losing her only daughter to an overdose took their toll (especially the last one-that absolutely devastated her). Her television appearances were made at a later stage in her life.
She was an utter phenomenon,despite her acting techniques which are very much out of fashion today.
Each person brings his/her own interpretation,own personal history,own baggage, the particular social quirks of the time, etc to a part. As for her singing-I've found that most people are not neutral. Again,it's very out of fashion. Her comic songs I like,but I don't care for her ballads. Although I like the tempo of the original "I Got Lost in His Arms" much better than the one in Bernadette's revival.
Now,after all that,I certainly understand why someone would not like Ethel Merman. I'm not a rabid fan by any means,and I think that thinking that there is only one way to play Rose (as some of Ethel's big fans do) is a very narrow viewpoint.
I,personally,find the OBC recording of Gypsy to be wonderful. But that's my opinion,and I certainly don't expect others to share that! I have all the Broadway recordings of Gypsy,and each has its own wonderful qualities.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all-just suggesting that it may help to consider the way acting,psychological understandings,etc have changed from the original Broadway production to the recent revival. That just makes me marvel even more at this show.
Jenn,who also finds Ethel's disco album to be thrilling,but in a different way
| Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
68.167.198.x | posted: 3/14/2004 at 8:41:40 PM ET
Bernadette is great we all know that, but you so can't put Ethel Merman down like that. She redfined what a true performance was. Her and Bernadette aren't similar performers because their styles are completely different. But just because their styles are different doesn't mean Merman is bad at this role...Ethel Merman was the original Rose, let's just face it. But I am not trying to put down Bernadette at all, she is amazing in the part, like truly and utterly amazing, but a person can't diss Merman's stlye like that. She got famous for that stlye and will stay famous for that style.
|  BleuTwinks
Registered User
Registered:
12/14/2003
From:
Arizona | posted: 3/14/2004 at 11:27:05 PM ET
Thank you anonymous, I completely agree. They have completely different performing styles. I of course (being a diehard BP fan) am going to be naturally biased and when I think of the role of Rose I will always picture Bernadette. But then of course she would be my favorite actress of any role she decides to take on.
|  Broadwaybaby17
Registered User
Registered:
3/18/2003
From:
Alabama | posted: 3/15/2004 at 2:25:26 AM ET
I personally think that Merman sounded like a strangled mouse, but I know that she was big star because she was a novelty. Something different. There are a hundred people who could play the roles that she and Bernadette have, but they are both so unique, they intrigue people. It's something about people like Bernadette, Merman, and Angela Lansbury that make you want to watch them over and over. Some more modern people that I can think of are performers like Idina Menzel or Kristen Chenoweth,even Hunter Foster. They just intrigue me to no end.
Bump it with a trumpet!
|  Jean
Registered User
Registered:
6/7/2003 | posted: 3/15/2004 at 6:38:54 AM ET
Bernadette is great we all know that, but you so can't put Ethel Merman down like that
Oh my--anon: yes, one CAN express an opinion about Merman, or anyone or anything for that matter. It's called "America" and "opinion" and "freedom".
The people who expressed their OPINIONS simply said they preferred one over another--happens all the time. Think about people who live in countries where they don't have the freedoms we have before saying "can't".
That said, I agree completely with the thoughts of Karen and brilliant analysis of Jenn.
(Whew--too much for so early. And a few more pictures on the way.)
J
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 3/15/2004 at 8:35:31 AM ET
I have no idea if anonymous's mesage was intended for me. Let me just say that I was in no way insulting Ethel Merman-in fact,I was intending to do the opposite,for goodness sakes.
BroadwayBaby17-a strangled mouse? I've always thought mice had high-pitched voices,but I guess that's just me,lol. Is this from personal experience?
A strangled mouse. Now that's something you don't think about everyday. And Ethel Merman. You've given me something to puzzle over in the early AM.
Jenn
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 3/15/2004 at 10:57:47 AM ET
Jenn, very good points. It's best when things can be put into a broader historical overview lile that. Merman was definitely pre-modern, or maybe she was modern and we're all post-modern. I'm not sure what the most apt terminology is, but she was certainly not of our era in her performance style, and probably sui gerneris even in her own time. Yay, for her disco album--it's a cult classic. But let's not forget her live album, Merman in Vegas, which I also love. She does a wacky (but nifty) version of Gotta A Lot Of Livin'To Do from Bye Bye Birdie. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but it's great, if you know what I mean. She has this specialty patter where she talks about all her marriages have failed and now she's on the look-out for new men. She mentions everyone from Dr Kildare to astronaut John Glenn, ending with Fabian. Then she does one of her patented vocal double takes on Fabian, which is very funny. I guess you're right that no one is neutral, you either love that kind of stuff or you hate it.
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 3/15/2004 at 11:55:42 AM ET
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I don't know about strangling, but I did hear one of my cats kill a mouse once, and it let out a high-pitched shriek--no Mermanesque vibrato though.
|  Christine-NYC
Registered User
Registered:
3/23/2002
From:
New York City
Fav. BP Song: With So Little to be Sure Of
Fav. BP Show: Gypsy
Fav. BP Character: Marie (insert last name) lol There's a few
Fav. BP CD: Bernadette Peters Loves Rogers and Hammerstein
| posted: 3/15/2004 at 12:17:30 PM ET
Considering I never saw Ethel Merman "Act" the part, I cannot judge her on that. But comparing the singing, I think Bernadette sings with much more feeling; therefore making me like the character of Rose much more. I imagine Ethel must have been very good as Mama Rose because back then she was the style they wanted. Rose was supposed to be depicted as a rough-edged stage mother, and Ethel gave them that. Now they want a more gentil/sexier Rose who gives more emotional feeling, and Bernadette does that. Both ladies were chosen for this role for completely different reasons.
As far as Mary Martin goes, she will always be my favorite "Old Time" Broadway actress/singer. I know she is an acquired taste (as is Ethel Merman and Bernadette Peters); but I think she was just amazing. I'm sorry I wasn't around to see her on Bradway...though I did grow up watching her version of Peter Pan on tape. She is the reason I grew to love musical theatre as a young child.
<3CMH<3
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