Topic Bernadette on PBS American Musical Site from the General Chit-Chat forum.
Post a reply or begin a new topic.
View other threads or jump to a different forum.
Go to page: 1, 2
|
| Author | Topic: Bernadette on PBS American Musical Site |
|---|
 Jean
Registered User
Registered:
6/7/2003 | posted: 10/8/2004 at 8:49:13 AM ET
"Then I'll eat my hat. (Does anyone still wear a hat?)"
No, but I'll drink to that.
Too easy.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 10/8/2004 at 5:56:17 PM ET
I know,but I couldn't resist.
Jenn
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 10/9/2004 at 11:13:33 AM ET
I picked the Mordden book up last night--had to special order it, as the book store had no plans to carry it. So far, I'm only in the middle of chapter 2, but I'm loving it. He admits in the introduction that this book differs from his others in being, not a chronicle, but a rant. He comes right out and uses that term.
As usual, he tantalizes and intrigues me by his vivid descriptions of shows I've either barely or never heard of. I'm already making lists of things I need to track down.
He does have that very distinctive writing voice, which apparently grates on some--but not me. I love his humor--don't find it mean at all--and was literally laughing out loud at his Carmen Mathews jokes.
If there are a lot of factual errors, that would be a definite problem. Nothing has leapt out at me yet, but I'm no expert, so I could just be missing things.
As I said, I'm still near the beginning so this is just a preliminary impression, but I think it stands up well with his previous books. I have to admit that I share his attitudes, prejudices, whatever, about just how bad everything has become, and how degraded popular culture and the mass audience now is. To me, the negativity is, if anything, understated. Those who feel more hopeful might not like the book as well as I find myself doing.
Oh yeah, of course I had to check the index for Bernadette and then read the section near the end where he discusses Gypsy. I thought he had a lot of very good insight into what she was doing with her performance.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 10/9/2004 at 7:04:42 PM ET
Karen-
You know that I think Mordden's previous books are a must-read for anyone interested in American musical theatre. I have read them several times,and usually find something in each reread that I had not noticed previously,or find myself thinking about a show in a different light.
I do know that this was a rant-however,I became annoyed when he strayed from musical theatre and into general society.
Re:The Will Rogers mistake
He says that the Rogers introduced their "four boys" in "The Big Time." Actually,the children introduce themselves and then their youngest brother:
"Howdy/I'm Will Rogers Jr/Howdy/I'm MARY Rogers/Howdy/I'm James Rogers/Howdy/Well here comes Freddy/"
The Movin' On/Movin' Out is much later in the book.
However,I was surprised at how easy he went on Starlight Express. I saw that when I was in fifth grade,and I hated it. I agree with his assessment of My Favorite Year and these shows made from movie musicals (TMM) and "jukebox" shows.
In the end,I still find this book wanting. When he analyzed the shows,I was totally with him,even though I may disagree with him (save for one show-I disagreed and did not respect his opinion of one show at all). When he sneered about illiteracy and laziness,modern Broadway audiences,modern musicals-he really wasn't saying anything that hasn't been said before this book,and that gets boring,at least to me.And when someone tells a story about some copy editor or assistant making a mistake (nothing to do with a show),and then makes obvious mistakes himself-that grates on me. And then the intelligentsia-oh,*please*,Ethan. I'm surprised he never used the term "limousine liberals."
As for his meanness-he's not so ugly in the beginning of the book. It's not constant,but it jumped out at me when it happened. Karen,I wanted to like this book just as much as I liked the other books. I knew it was going to be quite negative,since I read the prepublication information many months ago. And then I preordered it,and read Filichia's preview (very positive,and the Talkin' Broadway review (mixed). I don't care for many ALW shows,I hate musicals like Mamma Mia! and the other "jukebox" musicals,I do worry about the future of Broadway,but I still didn't care for the book. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I was swept away with his previous volumes. Not with this one. Even though I did disagree with him on certain shows and issues in the previous books,it was not the same with this one.
What do you think about Ragtime? After reading his thoughts on Assassins,I was astonished to read his take on Ragtime. *That's* when I became the most aggravated with the book.
This is from Jonathan Frank's review,and I couldn't agree more (don't read it if you don't want to know Mordden's views on Assassins and Ragtime)
"While it is perplexing that Mordden can consider Ragtime an exultation of terrorism due to Coalhouse's targeting of firehouses but can equate the "losers" in Assassins with "Islamists killing the symbol of the success they can not have," his statement that Ragtime "reveals how slavishly Broadway buys snake oil from the wreckers and stooges of the hard left" belongs more in a treatise by Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly than in a critical essay on an art form."
And that....was when I lost it with the book. So-Assassins and Chicago? Not glorification of murder. Ragtime? Meet the Broadway axis of evil-Ahrens and Flaherty. And there's much,much more that he says about Ragtime. After all,it is the "glorification of slime."
There are also a few lame jabs at liberalism in the book,but luckily,they are few. And I truly hope that those who berate the ACLU,as does Mordden,never truly need its assistance. But that's another topic,and if I start on that,I won't stop.
But those are just my feelings,and I am glad that you are enjoying the book. I wish I had.
Jenn
| Karen
Registered User
Registered:
5/3/2002 | posted: 10/9/2004 at 9:57:33 PM ET
Wow, that's astounding! I haven't gotten to that part yet, but, no, not only do I not agree with that view of Ragtime, I find it silly, annoying, and offensive. Hmm, sounds like there's a lot of unexpected stuff coming up later in the book. I wonder if Mordden is one of those liberals who veered to the right after 9-11?
Thanks for your comments, Jenn. They're extremely thought-provoking, whether or not I end up agreeing with you about this particular book...and I may well by the time I finish it.
| jmslsu01
Registered User
Registered:
6/9/2003
From:
northern VA | posted: 10/9/2004 at 10:38:25 PM ET
"I wonder if Mordden is one of those liberals who veered to the right after 9-11?"
To be honest,Karen,I don't necessarily think so. If he had,I think he would have had some different things to say about Assassins. And I don't think you could say Mordden is liberal or conservative,because he's just that inconsistent. It's hard to explain,since I don't want to talk too much about a chapter you haven't read yet. What I found so odd was that he has similar sentiments about Ragtime that some people have about Assassins. Yet he apparently doesn't see an inconsistency,or sees the need to explain why he doesn't see any inconsistencies.
If he had said "Reasons A and B and X and Y are why it is not an inconsistency to believe that Assassins does not glorify assassination while Ragtime glorifies terrorism",then I might have agreed to disagree. I would have liked an explanation. This is what he says about Assassins-"Assassins doesn't glorify. Nor does it excuse or sympathize." And after I read that,and after I read about one paragraph of analysis,which does not explain why Assassins doesn't glorify or excuse (I'm on that train,but it still needs explanation),then I read a general history of the show,which is known to anyone who would read this book,and then several pages later (about other shows),read almost nine pages about Ragtime (Assassins gets barely two pages total,and that includes the history that anyone could have read from Sondheim.com or Show People magazine),and then no anticipation of the obvious question--How does this differ?--that's what bothered me. He went to great pains in a previous volume to explain why Finian's Rainbow is not racist (while ridiculing those who think so,of course-but I'm on his train there,too),and that's something that's raised everytime the show is produced. It's just like you want to go...Ragtime? Seriously? You're fine with Assassins,but not with Ragtime? It's not the music he has issues with-in fact,he praises several parts of the score-it's the plot he criticizes. The presentation. Which is exactly what some say about the textbook depository scene in Assassins. I must be missing something here. Well,he would say that Coalhouse is presented as a hero. But some people think the assassins are...well,maybe not heroes,but presented sympathetically? Would someone please explain this to me,since Mordden did not? If he thinks that Ragtime glorifies terrorism-well,that's just a difference of opinion. But if you believe that,then why isn't Assassins a glorification of assassination? Did he not anticipate that some might wonder why? Did he not have some retort ready for clunkheads who couldn't see the differences (as he undoubtedly would have thought,had he chosen to include such an observation)? And dear Lord-why does Assassins barely get a mention in the book? I could have lived with fewer paragraphs about A Doll's Life. And much of what has been said about Carrie was said wonderfully by Ken Mandelbaum. That could have been trimmed. In fact,some parts of Not Since Carrie are superior to The Happiest Corpse I've Ever Seen,and Mandelbaum doesn't have the attitude that Mordden does (in fact,Mandelbaum starts off by reminding readers that no one sets out to do a bad show). And when Mandelbaum gets around to updating Not Since Carrie,then there will be another reckoning for The Happiest Corpse I've Ever Seen in some areas.
Oh,this is hurting my brain. I want to read the libretti of Assassins and Ragtime,and then read Doctorow's book,and I just don't have time to get into that. And I desperately want to see both shows right now,but that's not possible.
Jenn
|  Chip1012
Registered User
Registered:
7/13/2003
From:
Boston | posted: 10/15/2004 at 3:35:47 PM ET
Got the DVD. It's GREAT. And some of Julie Andrews' commentary is filmed on the Gypsy stage, on the sets!
"The child is so sweet and the girls are so rapturous. Isn't it lovely how artist's can capture us?~" Sunday in the Park with George
|  PA Fan
Registered User
Registered:
11/6/2003 | posted: 10/24/2004 at 10:59:17 AM ET
If you didn't catch Broadway: The American Musical last week check your local PBS station for rerun. My PBS station is re-running it today from 2PM to 8PM.
| Jean
Registered User
Registered:
6/7/2003 | posted: 10/24/2004 at 11:17:03 AM ET
I finally got around to watching some of this--actually the last hour (don't ask--that's how my mind works). Looks pretty good from just that one hour. Naturally as with anything of this scope there is the inclusion-exclusion dilemma, so I'll reserve judgment until I watch it all.
Probably though I guess the best thing to say about it is that it was actually made and aired. For those of us passionate about live theater--and not just big Broadway musicals--this is certainly an important documentary.
(And now on to my second live theater of this weekend. Later)
| TB4me2000
Registered User
Registered:
9/1/2004 | posted: 10/25/2004 at 5:37:42 PM ET
Okay--am I seriously missing something or is there nothing about Gypsy? I've see it (almost) twice now...and there has been no mention of it at all. I'm thinking I'm losing it, but I need to know lol...
How is that possible? No Gypsy. Bah.
"They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Shit, it's rainin'!'"--Cold Mountain
| Anonymous
Anonymous Poster
From Internet Network:
209.179.141.x | posted: 10/25/2004 at 5:42:15 PM ET
Chip do you mean the Broadway The American Musical DVD?
| Go to page: 1, 2
Other threads: « Next | Previous » |
Do you think this topic is inappropriate? Vote it down. After a thread receives a certain amount of negative votes it will be automatically locked.
Please contact us with any concerns you might have.
|
