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| Author | Topic: Follies cast album |
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 Jennifer
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Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/26/2011 at 4:23:57 PM ET
I think I would consider Sally completely delusional, if Ben never sang TOO MANY MORNINGS to her. When Ben sings this to her it gives her hope and looks to me like he wants to go back with Sally. I wouldn't say her delusion crumbles, more like her hope that she and Ben will be together is gone at the end.
|  AMH
Registered User
Registered:
11/7/2011
From:
North Carolina | posted: 12/26/2011 at 5:47:19 PM ET
I guess the word "crazy" does have a subjective meaning. Sally may not necessarily be mental institution crazy, but I don't think she's all there upstairs. She was already a little off--fighting with her sons, her mood swings, and lying around the house crying all day--before the party. Then at the reunion, Ben singing "Too Many Mornings" really seemed to set her over the edge and add to her delusion. She does come back down to reality at the end, once she realizes that Ben doesn't love her and that they'll never be together.
Maybe I'm being a little tough on Sally but the two times I saw the show, that's how Bernadette's performance came across to me. I've never read the book, so I don't know how Sally is truly supposed to be played. However, no matter how she should be portrayed, I thoroughly enjoyed this production of FOLLIES and Bernadette's performance.
| Jennifer
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7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/26/2011 at 7:12:00 PM ET
I don't see her as being "off". When Buddy says "The mess. the moods, the spells you get, in bed for day without a word. Or else you're crying, God, the tears around our place- or flying out to Tom or Tim and camping on their doorsteps just to fight..." I see those as classic signs of depression.
When Ben sings TOO MANY MORNINGS it sets her over the edge because it makes her happy that he would say all these wonderful things to her. It gives her hope. Like I said before as he is singing to her she is questioning him and herself:
SALLY
"was it ever real?
Did I ever love you this much?
Did we ever feel
So happy then?"
and Ben is reassuring her the entire time. Telling her
BEN
"it was always real...
And I've always loved you this much..."
I don't see her as being delusional I see her as believing and trusting what Ben is telling her while singing TOO MANY MORNINGS. Sally realizes differently but only after Ben tells her.
She isn't really delusion because Ben seems to feel the same way about her as he is singing TOO MANY MORNINGS.
| BroadwayBabyGal
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5/8/2003 | posted: 12/26/2011 at 8:02:34 PM ET
Sally has been holding on to the delusion of Ben's love for 30 years. Though Ben is hardly a saint, I don't think he was purposely misleading her in "Too Many Mornings." He was just getting caught up in the memories because he was unhappy with Phyllis. When Sally assumes that this time she'll marry him, he snaps out of it. She's unable to understand what he's trying to say and convinces herself that they will get married. By the end of "Losing My Mind," she finally realizes it was all in her head. In her last scene, after she's realized that the past 30 years have been built on a delusion, you see the life slowly drain from her face and then her body goes limp as she walks out. You see the life drain from her. I've been in similar situations (not nearly as extreme), and it was scary because at the end, I saw a lot of myself in Sally. Btw, I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just love analyzing characters. 
Jessica
| Jennifer
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Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/26/2011 at 8:52:35 PM ET
Hi,
I'm not trying to argue either I just see Sally completely differently.
Sally hasn't been holding onto Ben for 30 years. She has been busy raising her family and taking care of her wifely and mom duties. It is only when her kids move away and she finds out Buddy is cheating on her that she becomes horribly depressed and starts searching for happiness.
When the invite for the reunion arrives she thinks "I was happy then". If Ben is getting caught up in nostalgia then so is Sally.
Ben does sort of say he wants to marry Sally:
BEN/SALLY:
"How many mornings
Are there still to come?
How much time can we hope that there will be?"
Ben does tell Sally he loves her and wants to be with her but changes his mind when it no longer suits him. Sally doesn't realize it on her own Ben tells her "I never loved you".
It really isn't all in her head because Ben is telling her what she wants to hear.
And in LOSING MY MIND
"You said you loved me,
Or were you just being kind?
Or am I losing my mind?"
Sally isn't really delusional because Ben is reciprocating her love. In fact Ben tells Sally he loves her before Sally even says anything. Ben makes it seem like he really wants to be with Sally. I think the color drains because she realizes what a fool Ben has made of her.
Those last lines:
SALLY
"...there is no Ben for me, not ever, anyplace."
I think it finally hits her that he never really loved her.
| AMH
Registered User
Registered:
11/7/2011
From:
North Carolina | posted: 12/26/2011 at 10:24:17 PM ET
I think Sally has always held an unrequited love toward Ben. In the scene right before "Loveland" when the four principals confront their younger selves, Sally says to Young Sally, "The only man I ever wanted, and you lost him for me... You left me here with nothing." To me, it sounds like she has always carried a torch for Ben and was never happy with Buddy.
Sally certainly is a horribly depressed person, but I believe she is also quite delusional. I completely understand how "Too Many Mornings" could give her hope that she and Ben would rekindle their romance. It's the events leading up to this song that make me think Sally has, and has always had, some issues.
I like that everyone has a different interpretation of Sally. I think that's pretty interesting.
| Jennifer
Registered User
Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/26/2011 at 10:46:38 PM ET
I wouldn't consider the love to be unrequited. Ben does reciprocate Sally's love, but once she gives into him he shuts her down.
I think Sally was happy with Buddy for a little while. I think she just wonders what her life would have been like if she married Ben.
I would be delusional if I told you George Clooney is telling me he loves me through PEOPLE magazine articles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotomania
If I said I went to my 20th High School reunion and met my High School sweetheart and we both plan to divorce our spouses and get married.
I don't think that is considered to be delusional. If he told me he was planning on getting a divorce and marry me. Why wouldn't I believe him?
| BroadwayBabyGal
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Registered:
5/8/2003 | posted: 12/27/2011 at 1:39:25 AM ET
In my opinion, young Ben was telling Sally what she wanted to hear just so she would sleep with him. When current (1971) Ben says he wants her after "Two Many Mornings," it sounds to me like he's just talking about sex. Sally misinterprets his intentions and thinks he finally will leave Phyllis and marry her. Again, just my opinion. One of the things I love about Sondheim's work is that much of it is open to interpretation.
Jessica
| ripley123
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Registered:
11/8/2011 | posted: 12/27/2011 at 9:04:57 AM ET
I was the one who first said "crazy," so I just want to clarify that I got that from what Sondheim said about the direction Bernadette went with it as the run continued. This was after I saw it in NYC previews in August, and what I saw didn't seem any form of crazy/delusional to me. More desperate. I really do want to see it again though, so I can see exactly what he means. I think one of the great things about Sondheim is that he writes such complicated people who are so human that they don't even fully know themselves, and then when you get an actress with a really terrific imagination and freedom on stage like Bernadette, you can see several interpretations of the role over a run of a show, and they all work.
| AMH
Registered User
Registered:
11/7/2011
From:
North Carolina | posted: 12/27/2011 at 9:47:28 AM ET
I agree that Ben has sex on his mind in most, if not all, of "Too Many Mornings," especially since he tries to pick up Carlotta a few scenes over. Indeed there are lines in the song that would suggest to Sally that Ben does love her. However, this doesn't seem to be the case when Ben says to Phyllis, "I've never been in love with Sally, not in any way that matters."
For me, it just seems a little crazy for Sally to expect that she and Ben will run off and get married after being apart for 30 years. Describing Sally as delusional may not be completely accurate, medically speaking, but certainly she does hold an initial false belief that she and Ben will end up together.
Ripley, I know the interview you're talking about:
In her dressing room, she has brought three big tacky mugs decorated with birds and flowers that are each labeled "Believe," "Faith" and "Dream." Peters describes them as "very Sally" — part earnest, part delusional. After a recent performance, Sondheim said to her, "Congratulations, you're a little crazy." (September 9, 2011)
Bernadette Peters' Dark Road Returns to Broadway
| Jennifer
Registered User
Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/27/2011 at 12:58:00 PM ET
BroadwayBabyGal
..., young Ben was telling Sally what she wanted to hear just so she would sleep with him. When current (1971) Ben says he wants her after "Two Many Mornings," it sounds to me like he's just talking about sex
AMH
I agree that Ben has sex on his mind in most, if not all, of "Too Many Mornings," especially since he tries to pick up Carlotta a few scenes over
This is exactly what I thought. Ben will tell Sally anything to get into her pants. Sally believes Ben because she is a bit naive. She is extremely trusting of Ben. Sally has had two relationships her whole life. Possible three if she had a high school boyfriend.
Carlotta on the other hand has had multiple relationships and knows what Ben wants and isn't going to fall for it.
Sally is unable to identify if Ben is really in LOVE with her or just is telling her all this to have sex with her.
Carlotta realizes it is just about the sex and Sally thinks it is about LOVE. It is the difference between Carlotta (experience) and Sally (naive and childlike).
I wouldn't say she is delusional because she believes she will pick up with Ben from where they left off. Sally is trying to rekindle the flame and she doesn't need to because Ben does it. Sally just believes Ben. She thinks Ben is a different man from how he truly is. Ben is a charmer and likes to sleep around. Sally thinks he is true and would never do that to her. Sally thinks they will pick up from where they left off because Ben makes it seem that way. He starts sings TOO MANY MORNINGS to her.
It all starts with Ben.
BEN
"...waking and pretending I reach for you,
Thousands of mornings,
Dreaming of my girl..."
and as he is singing this she can't believe he still feels this way about her, but he doesn't he just wants to get in her pants, but Sally doesn't realize it, because she is so naive. (Sorry about this last sentence)
Listen to the song again
http://cheekyfirecracker.tumblr.com/tagged/Follies (This isn't mine)
| ripley123
Registered User
Registered:
11/8/2011 | posted: 12/27/2011 at 1:22:57 PM ET
There's one even more recent, where he mentioned she had evolved and was playing her "really crazy". I can't find it though. Bernadette is always really good at having her characters be at least a little off-kilter. Makes them more real, because let's face it, who in real life isn't just a teensy bit dinged-up emotionally in at least some respects by adulthood? Totally normal = totally boring.
| AMH
Registered User
Registered:
11/7/2011
From:
North Carolina | posted: 12/27/2011 at 4:57:17 PM ET
I guess each person's interpretation of Sally kind of depends on his or her own life experiences. Something I've read a lot on other message boards is that younger people don't, or can't, get FOLLIES. I don't think that's true. I'm in my early twenties and can still identify with some aspects of the characters. Thirty years from now I might have a completely different view of Sally, but currently I see her as a little crazy.
Ripley, I've been searching for that interview/article, but can't find it. The only articles I could find were from September. Here's part of an interview with Bernadette from the Wall Street Journal:
You have Stephen Sondheim there—it’s like having Shakespeare right there. It’s like, “What did you mean when you wrote that?” He had some input, which was great. He said early on that [Sally] is off balance, to put it mildly. He thinks she’s very neurotic, and she is very neurotic, so he said to me, “Congratulations. She’s crazy.” (September 3, 2011)
I wish I would've seen the show early in its run so I could see how Bernadette's performance has evolved.
I completely agree with you, Ripley, about the way Bernadette plays her characters. Whatever she's in, she always makes me forget that it's Bernadette on the stage or screen. I only think about the character. It's always just Sally, not Bernadette playing Sally.
| Jennifer
Registered User
Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/27/2011 at 6:01:56 PM ET
AMH
Fair enough you can see her as crazy, but I enjoy analysis and finding things out about the character that makes sense to me.
What makes that character tick.
I think you might change your mind in 30 years. : )
| BroadwayBabyGal
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Registered:
5/8/2003 | posted: 12/27/2011 at 6:12:22 PM ET
Early in the Broadway run, Bernadette's Sally was very naive, but not totally off her rocker. Now she plays her as crazy, IMO. I actually prefer her earlier interpretation because we got to see the layers of the character unfold gradually. Now we know something's off from the beginning. Other aspects of her performance have gotten stronger, such as her scene at the end and all the little nuances she's added.
Jessica
| Jennifer
Registered User
Registered:
7/12/2010
From:
CA | posted: 12/27/2011 at 6:23:14 PM ET
So there is a difference between the Kennedy Center production and the Broadway production. In the Ken Cen production she just singings LOSING MY MIND. In the Broadway version she cries throughout most of the song. She seems to be truly unravelling during the performance. Just one thing I noticed.
I think I prefer the more "together" Sally as well.
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